Even European courts have rejected the idea that the human right to marry includes the right to same-sex marriage. In 2003, the European Court of Justice ruled, “Article 12 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects only traditional marriage between two persons of opposite biological sex.” The European Court of Human Rights and the United Nations Human Rights Committee have issued similar rulings. Ah, not good enough for Pepe, who wallows in a haze of pink champagne on ice.
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Ai, you still haven't made an argument as to how gay marriage threatens reproduction among non-gays. Since it seems to be at the center of your belief, could you make an effort to articulate it ?
a society needs to reproduce in order to survive -- it's one of those laws of Nature, ya know? So marriage recognizes that. Is this too deep for you to understand?
According to this logic, should irreversibly sterile couples be allowed to marry ?
Nice try, Pepe -- but it's still sofistry. I don't need to "prove" anything -- I'm simply basing my position on some 5,000 years of recorded history, and plain old common sense. You're the pinko guy oh so enamored of social engineering (creating the New Soviet Man, too, while at it?) who wants to destroy tradition -- so how about trying to make a case, whatever it is? By the way, the people of California overwhelmingly voted against this measure -- passed by a single vote in a pinko activist, non-elected court, which is supposed to interpret the law, not create it. But that's the usual way pinkos ram through the throats of the citinzery their liberal-socialist dogma, what do you expect? And, by the way, it looks like you are opposing now not only the law of your state (and 48 other US states), but also that of France and the rest of the EU (not to mention basically the rest of the world). Hey, where is the pinko-liberal adulation for multi-culti? Yeah, right.
really ? are you truly unable to even begin making a logical argument as to why you care how others wish to define their relationships?
you started down the procreation path but were unable to come up with any retort to my objection! This from a mathematician?
Surely your belief stems from more than your last point which seems to boil down to no more than "people have been doing this for millenia, therefore it's good enough for me". You are capable of independent thought, aren't you?
Gay marriage is ridiculous. That's reason enough against it. When the state codifies something hilarious as a couple florists flouncing and flitting out of the august city hall with matching pink bouquets, the austerity of city hall is turned into a cheap Mari joke, like the ones we indulge in, Pepe. If there is no respect for the institutions, then there will be no future for them.
Even Aristotle when asked whether he believed in all the religious mumbo-jumbo of his day replied that it was useful to society as a whole to feign respect.
If you're a vistor and don't care about the future of this place, then you can throw caution to the winds and be frivolous, supporting lightweights like Obama and proclaiming rap the new national genius. Iw you have your genes invested and your children's survival at stake, you opt for serious ideas and let the frivolous fads die out.
AI makes a valid point also. MA has avoided a referendum on this. Lucky for you and your ilk, Pepe. It would have sent the gay marriage types packing (and not just fudge). Similarly, there's all this talk about the people's will except when it comes to gay marriage, where the people's will is pure obscurantism.
If this democracy allows everyone to speak on topics where your side agrees with the common people, Pepe, then let the common people speak out on gay marriage in the voting booth. It will lose everywhere.
Welcome back, JJ. This is about as classic a case of conservative vs liberal as it gets. A conservative's first impulse is to preserve tradition, unless overwhelming evidence to the contrary is produced (like, when Coanda started that first jet engine, back in 1910, I'm sure I would have jumped on the bandwagon, and proclaimed that's the way to go!) A liberal knee-jerk response is to embrace any and all gimmick that comes down the pike, panting, and with eyes bulging: yeah, yeah, that's the ticket, I wanna have that new toy, it's gonna fix this bad world! Sure, Pepe, sure.
While at it, let's remember the story of Elagabalus, the Roman Emperor from 218–222:
His most stable relationship seems to have been with his chariot driver, a blond slave from Caria named Hierocles, whom he referred to as his husband. The Augustan History claims that he also married a man named Zoticus, an athlete from Smyrna, in a public ceremony at Rome. Cassius Dio reported Elagabalus would paint his eyes, epilate his hair and wear wigs before prostituting himself in taverns and brothels, and even the imperial palace:
Finally, he set aside a room in the palace and there committed his indecencies, always standing nude at the door of the room, as the harlots do, and shaking the curtain which hung from gold rings, while in a soft and melting voice he solicited the passers-by.
Pepe's kind of guy.
A conservative's first impulse is to preserve tradition.
I couldn't have said it better: if others have done it for a while, it's good enough for you. A brilliant insight into conservative philosophy.
Without a concrete demonstration of what the risk is, I'd say you are grasping at straws to rationalize mild homophobia. Bullshit. I'm not talking about risks -- it's you who keeps bring that red herring, and putting words in my mouth. I'm talking about about a bunch of pinko judges arrogating upon themselves the prerogative to invent laws, in spite of 5,000 years or tradition to the contrary, and against the wishes expressed repeatedly by the voters. Typical Leftist arrogance and contempt for everything but their own dogma.
The silver lining: Presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama, however, may not share their joy. Though he surely counts on the Golden State's 55 electoral votes bolstering his electoral total in November, some political analysts now say this wedge issue may drive California's social conservatives to the polls and put the state in play for de-facto Republican nominee John McCain. "Two days ago, you'd put his chances, at best, at 20-30%," says California GOP pollster Stephen Kinney. "Right now, I think you could put it at 50-50. This ruling changes the dynamics. It will energize our voting base."
the prerogative to invent laws, in spite of 5,000 years or tradition to the contrary
ok but you still haven't articulated any argument as to why one ought to care how a fraction of the population chooses to define their relationship (beyond the fact that it doesn't quite fit the standing definition).
Pepe, we want our definitions to apply to our children. That's all. This is the commonality among Baptists, Taliban, and Tories. Free invention of things so unwieldy as societal norms produce unforseen consequences, some good, some about like Elagabalus, a horrible murderer as well as sodomite. One that feels free to violate some of society's norms feels free to flout others as well.
What's the matter with Kansas? They should all be killed comes not long after.
Justice Baxter (who wrote a spirited dissent) noted that California’s high court made a three-way power shift that violates American principles of constitutional law:
• It usurped the state legislature’s authority to make laws, violating separation of powers.
• It usurped the people’s authority to make laws via initiative and referendum.
• Because the state constitution prohibits legislators from repealing laws passed by popular vote, the court gave the lawmakers a new power to repeal such laws indirectly.
Ah, but what do Constitutional niceties mean to pinkos when it comes to the ultimate aphrodisiac: exercise of naked power? Planet Pepe in all its glory.
Free invention of things so unwieldy as societal norms produce unforseen consequences.
change the norm and something bad yet unforseeable and undefined might happen? you can't be serious.
What's the matter with Kansas? They should all be killed comes not long after.
sounds good to me - let's get married!
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