freecounterpoint: A Rational Romney Post-Mortem

Friday, February 08, 2008

A Rational Romney Post-Mortem

15 comments:

My Frontier Thesis said...: Evangelicals and Catholics understand the Mormon Church as a cult, in every negative sense of the word They don't apply the same scrutiny to themselves however in believing some dude walked on water 2000 years ago -- he sounded like a real nice guy, though. I'd like to see that wine trick over and over and over again.; 2/08/2008 5:00 PM
Mr roT said...: the water trick is not bad if you drink too much of the wine trick on a fishing trip and fall overboard; 2/08/2008 5:34 PM
Tecumseh said...: Good analysis, except for point #1 - why would Mitt have to explain his religion? He gave a speech about it, and it was a good speech -- case closed. But the other 4 points are substantive; he could have lived with one mistake, but not so many. In the end, though, I don't think he was so much beaten by McCain, as (1) squeezed in between him an Huck, (2) all sorts of bad tactical moves, (3) McCain had all the luck (as with Giuliani's voters falling in his lap).
And, perhaps McCain's luckiest break was with Crist -- Florida's governor -- endorsing him at the last minute. Without that endorsement, I think Romney could still have carried Florida, and have a clear shot at Super Tuesday, which he never quite got. Oh, well -- the luck of the Irish, I guess.; 2/08/2008 5:35 PM
Tecumseh said...: Here is more about the Crist angle, if you want to have a more balanced post-mortem.; 2/08/2008 5:46 PM
Tecumseh said...: On second thought, maybe the Mormon thing played a role in torpedoing Romney's candidacy, after all:

In November 2006, 53 percent of evangelical Christians (compared with 43 percent of all Americans) told a Rasmussen survey they would never even consider voting for a Mormon presidential candidate. [..] in advance of the Iowa straw poll, a group called U.S. Christians for Truth circulated a flyer that stated: "We strongly believe that Jesus Christ, if he were alive in the flesh in this time and voted, would NEVER vote for Mitt Romney under any circumstances. ... Mitt Romney represents Mormonism which is counterfeit Christianity, a cult."

Shucks, I guess I move in the wrong circles, too -- but I never heard of such things before (well, before last week, that is).; 2/08/2008 5:59 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: AI, that's what I was saying with my first post. Politically, it was rather historic that Evangelicals even considered backing someone with a worldview as Mitt's (symbolized in the voting demographic of the geo-political map you posted).

I've heard Pat Robertson denounce Mormons, certainly the late Jerry Falwell, and Catholics denounce them as well (in addition to denouncing Protestants proper).

It's one thing for Protestants to stray from Catholic Dogma and not have to confess to a priest (that acts as a vehicle for God). Catholics can at least deal with that, knowing that the heathen Protestants are at least still adhering to the Old and New Testament. It's far another thing, as the Mormons do, to bring in a supplement to the Old and New Testaments (which they do with the Book of Mormon). This is what gets Catholics and Protestants to pejoratively call the Church of J.C. of Latter Day Saints a cult.; 2/08/2008 6:13 PM
Mr roT said...: To put a final nail in the coffin from the Scriptural standpoint, one need not go further than the last words of St John the Divine himself:
17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.; 2/08/2008 6:23 PM
Tecumseh said...: I guess they do -- got it now. That does not make it nice. My take on this is -- live and let live. As long as they obey the law of the land, and don't want to impose shariah law or something, they don't bother me. Why should they bother anyone else?

Of course, that's talking in a secular context -- after all, that's the context where elections take place, yes? If the Mormons and the Evangelicals want to have a pissing context on theological terms (and I kind of see why they would), let them have it. But it should be circumscribed, and they all should make a mighty effort not to let it spill over in the political arena. That's kryptonite.; 2/08/2008 6:28 PM
Tecumseh said...: Well, maybe -- but he didn't have to call them names.

I've been boning up on the teachings of Joe Smith lately, and here's a little nugget:

There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beetle.

Life is a bitch.; 2/08/2008 7:01 PM
Mr roT said...: Not Manhattan talk.; 2/08/2008 7:58 PM
Tecumseh said...: At the risk of flogging a dead horse, here is more on the purported reason #1:

It’s tempting to call these voters anti-Mormon bigots. Polls show evangelicals are three times as likely to vote for a black candidate as a Mormon. In the late 1960s, the percentage of Americans who said they would not vote for a Jew was in the teens. By 2000, that number was down to the low single digits. A similar tolerance opened up for Catholics.

But on Mormons, the numbers never moved. About 17 percent of Americans say they have qualms about voting for a Mormon – the same number as in 1967. Among evangelicals, it’s far worse.

Swell.; 2/08/2008 8:28 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: MFT said: "I'd like to see that wine trick over and over and over again."

Hey, MFT, since you're content watching the trick I'll go ahead and imbibe that wine. You know, to minimize clutter and all that.; 2/08/2008 10:58 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: "We strongly believe that Jesus Christ, if he were alive in the flesh in this time and voted, would NEVER vote for Mitt Romney under any circumstances. ... Mitt Romney represents Mormonism which is counterfeit Christianity, a cult."

Hmmm, according to the biblical sources wouldn't Jesus Christ be voting for Caesar?; 2/08/2008 10:59 PM
Tecumseh said...: He would render Caesar his due -- but not vote: no elections then. At any rate, that letter was ludicrous.; 2/08/2008 11:31 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: By all means, AA, have some wine. And then some more! We'll sit back and watch the political knots unravel (or tighten).; 2/09/2008 8:18 AM

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