Baudrillard's article got me thinking about this war (again), and specifically about the hypocrisy behind the "support our troops" movement. Now I realize this is anathema to all of you, but hear me out.
Current events such as those that we read in the papers can be separated between those that allow us to understand better the world (foreign policy pages, politics, economy, etc...) and those just describe individual occurrences (little old lady gets run over on the corner of 5th and Madison, say); we call them "faits divers" & i don't know what the english term for them is. What is interesting about the latter is that while they are largely pointless (what genuine need does one have for the knowledge that some anonymous person has got run over?), we also feel strongly and emotionally about them (maybe we knew this person, and we might also think "i cross this intersection all the time: this could have been me", or we might feel sincerely sad that a nice little old ladies got run over). This is the realm of the purely emotional, until some discussion is made about the absurdity of the world that we live in, say, where people get killed for not being fast enough, at which point the story migrates from the "fait divers" back into the say, sociological page.
Support the troops is the opposite trip in that it brings a foreign policy decision to the realm of the purely emotional faits divers. Don't like the policy? Well you must hate the people serving. It is a subterfuge to hush opposition to policy by bringing it down into the purely emotional level. (It also leads to comically self-contradictory statements such as when rummie was both "supporting the troops" and stating that one goes with the army one has when it came out that troops had insufficient body armor to protect themselves and that the pentagon was doing shamefully little about it.) What is most frightening about it is that it is rhetoric that is entirely independent from context: you could decide to go to war for the purpose of wiping out say, all [pick your ethnicity here] just because they are [] and we don't like [], and still argue that opponents aren't supportive of the troops.
Sunday, March 11, 2007
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26 comments:
Pepe, like I told you prior, and many times prior to that, I don't support the war to proselytize, nor to "wipe out" some ethnic group (again: it's in the idealistic vein of Franklin Republicanism, and Jeffersonian Democracy — idealistic, yes a fault; but at the very least a goal that seeks to give as many individuals as possible a voice).
Conceptualize, for a moment, the duration one must heed to bring to a region even a small sampling of the idea of being able to speak freely in a public forum without having to worry about getting your hands or head chopped off. More important, to bring to this region the idea that one does not have to fear Allah — or [insert wrathful God here] — before speaking.
Franklin Roosevelt would have understood, Pepe. He was also in it for the duration, and he was in it long before the American people were decidedly in it. The entire problem is not going to go away just because you hate the current American CIC. Even if another party is elected, this problem is not going away ("problem" as defined by pockets of anti-Western jihadists, that will grow — moreso if we leave the petri dish alone).
Do you think the problem will go away if Western forces simply leave? Seriously? Should Israel pack up shop too, and leave? Then maybe we could clear out eastern Europe, and they could leave too (and on and on, until we're all "free" under the flag of Islam Militant)...
Or you might just take a look at the jihadist ethos, and realize they are fighting an eternal war that concerns the House of Peace, and the House of War. The former is reserved for converts (and you wouldn't be able to engage in your athiest rants in that House of "Peace," let me tell you). The latter is reserved for the frontier of Islam.
Again, this has been going on roughly since 635AD, and it's not going to simply stop (see the latest Ted Koppel Discovery report, Our Children's, Children's War where a four year old is being indoctrinated with Allah and trained to hold an AK-47 that he can't even lift) in 2007 because a couple isolationists think we, the West, need to engage in even greater self-reflexivity.
Here's more nonsense.
mft - i was really discussing how the support the troops movement is fundamentally intellectually dishonest.
But to answer your questions:
Do you think the problem will go away if Western forces simply leave? Seriously?
You may be right that it may not cause the problem to go away. But it isn't like their presence is helping peace. The notion that pulling out will induce chaos is also rather strange: it is difficult to imagine how things could get much worse for the iraqis than what america has brought. Certainly, with bombings galore, scant electricity, cities destroyed, life in iraq has become far worse due to the american involvement than it was under the baathists - that in itself is quite an achievement. Seriously, do you trust the boneheads that have allowed the situation degenerate so radically to be in charge of fixing the problem ?
There is a scene in Borat (which i saw last night) where he walks in this antique shop and breaks a plate or two. Then, as he picks up the pieces, he knocks more stuff off the shelves, and so on, until the store owner asks him to just leave.
this scene is very much like the american involvement in iraq: stopping to help is the best solution.
I suppose if around the incantations that you're around all the time, one would begin to believe that there is no hope, no future for Iraq, especially with America there. Skepticism is healthy, but you deploy a different variety, and all-encompassing defeatist kind.
Let Patraeus and his soldiers do their job. As Patraeus said, sometimes infrastructural progress would come only a step at a time.
Today we hear, I NEED RESULTS IMMEDIATELY!!! from American politicos that is becoming more typical of this country (it goes under the title, "Attention Deficit Disorder" these days; I call it American Deficit Disorder, but that's another rant). Instant gratification in this post-modern world of ours. That's what is fashionable these days.
P.J. O'Rourke put it succinctly in his Peace Kills, wondering why Iraq is so easy to hurt, but so hard to help. Now we're chippin' away at the latter, Pepe. And yes, it's going to continue to take much more sacrifice, and much more focus.
JJ, that is some awesome nonsense. Once I'm finished with more pressing matters, I'll have to take a peek at Derrida's buddy for myself.
JJ and Pepe. Here's a minor digression from our refusal to take one another seriously on matters of the Iraqi war.
For one reason or another, I found the third comment in the following post (see blue link just below) of mine interesting, and thus (because I always try to revolve the universe around myself) I thought you fellahs might find it interesting too. It involves Russian and Mongolian moonshine. Check out the link AI posted if you have time, and then the response (which I cut and pasted from my e-mail to the third comment) that was returned by a friend of mine who lives in Ulaan Bataar.
Pepe, one more note:
A former Airborne paratrooper and current military MP (spent a tour in Iraq just after formal cease-fire) who also happens to be my brother-in-law is upstairs right now, with my 8-week old niece. In addition to you denying that a neighbor of mine who spent two tours in Afghanistan ever existed, I also recall last fall that you denied that my bro-in-law existed (or something to that effect). Uncle MFT just went up to get some coffee, and yet there was my bro-in-law again, in real-time, this time with my niece, and changing her diaper. I even told him, "...a Parisian I know says you don't exist... do you want more coffee?" He said, "Yeah, I'll take more coffee."
Jean Baudrillard would call this a construct of reality, maybe a fabricated story that the media would try to get me to accept as non-fiction? I admit I haven't made time to read Baudrillard (frankly, it sounds as though there are better Frenchies to read for pleasure — I'm thinking of Marc Bloch, or more contemporary Michel Houellebecq). But as a professional, I've been trained to consult the primary documents. I'll have to get around to it someday.
Back to it... (let me know if you still don't think he exists, Pepe. We can get this cleared up.)
no link, mfthtml?
JJ, I don't know why it didn't work.
Try this link. If that doesn't work, just go to the blog and click on the "Russkie Moonshine" that AI posted a day or so ago.
Today we hear, I NEED RESULTS IMMEDIATELY!!!
It's been almost 4 years, mft. Except that the admin is resetting the clock every so often by pulling a new rabbit out of its hat. How many more Deus ex machina will you tolerate if the new one has failed along with his predecessors?
As I mentioned in a previous comment, there's a Militant Islam current that has flowed throughout the world since 635CE. And you expect America to help solve this cultural tangle in a matter of four years...
"stopping [ceasing] to help is the best solution"
I will remember that should Pepe one day ever need help
Yes, for one reason or another, Pepe is big on superficial Pacifism.
stopping [ceasing] to help is the best solution"
america is NOT helping, it is making matters worse: that's the whole point, aa.
I will remember that should Pepe one day ever need help
damn - you were #1 on my list of people to call if i someday run out of cash, aa. What am i going to do?
As I mentioned in a previous comment, there's a Militant Islam current that has flowed throughout the world since 635CE. And you expect America to help solve this cultural tangle in a matter of four years...
Perpetual war? Very orwellian, I love it.
Yes, you're right, Pepe: Islam Militant has waged a perpetual war on Buddhists, Pacificsts, Christians, Jews, and any other non-believer and Infidel since 635AD.
and the united states is addressing the problem by causing a civil war in a secular country. very smart.
Why might not that be smart, after all, O sage? Ever heard divide et impera? It's a romanian saying first coined by Coanda, I think.
Frankly, Pepe you seem reticent to give an argument always. About like Baudroolard.
What you write is brilliant of his with butterflies and chaos "theory" is just childish fingerpointing. There's no alternative given. When you're contradicted you bring some nonsense up about racism, and when you caricature what's going on in Iraq as a civil war you don't even cogently argue that that's a bad thing for us.
You react to AA's and AI's semilogical-semigut diatribes with a smug superiority based on glib pronouncements and pseudomoral arguments refreshingly (for those of us stuck in academia) mixed with some hair-raising political incorrectness.
Yes, it's entertaining, perhaps like this perhaps I exist perhaps this is all a dream nonsense of Bulldrillard, but why not attempt to argue honestly instead?
I will admit that the 'support the troops" nonsense is just that. Those bastard democrats would rather see the military all dead since they don't count as votes.
Better dead than red-stater?
Semi-logical, semi-gut diatribes? You talking to me?
Tecumseh Turgidson? Gut? Never!
ai - you should be thankful for the understatement
Pepe le Pew said...
"stopping [ceasing] to help is the best solution"
america is NOT helping, it is making matters worse: that's the whole point, aa. "
Really? So it is the Yanks who go around slaughtering various Iraquis going to market, school, job, mosque? Pogo yer muse, Pepe?
"damn - you were #1 on my list of people to call if i someday run out of cash, aa. What am i going to do?"
Don't be coy, Pepe. There is always a "Neocon" available when Vichy decides it's time to give unto Petain what properly should be Petain's
Pepe the Prim intoned: "ai - you should be thankful for the understatement"
As you are thankful?
Really? So it is the Yanks who go around slaughtering various Iraquis going to market, school, job, mosque?
none of this was happening before you "liberated" iraq, aa. You people are as prompt at taking credit for your illusionary victories as you are at evading responsibility for your ubiquitous fuck-ups.
No, before we invaded Iraq Saddam Murder Inc was doing it all nicely Gulaged so that Chirac and other Petainists would not have their equilibrium disturbed by evidence of the slaughterhouse they shilled for. Now, natch, Planet Pepe is in uproar not against those who do the slaughtering but against those who actually put blood and sweat into stopping Horror as a way of life.
A shill by any other name is yet as French, eh?
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