Thursday, November 02, 2006
One Tin Soldier Pepe Can Respect
The blighter can't decide if he is a Sean Penn or Jude Law wannabe? A strangeness in the proportion thereof only a Bacon could find beautiful.
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31 comments:
this guy doesn't want to risk his life to help put together a half-baked shiite theocracy half-way across the world? how selfish.
Pepe, why'd he join in the first place?
Neither of us know the answer to that. Maybe he was a confused teenager who was sensitive to hype, or maybe he started of as a bona fide soldier but started thinking along the way?
The patented John Kerry response: only dummies can join the Army. Smartasses sit on the sideline and laugh, feeling oh so superior and French.
Pepe, every soldier I know "thinks," as you called it. However, they don't think of turning their backs on their comrades, like you or this fellah would.
Good Kerry response.
Pepe, were these results worth it, or worth thinking about?:
Hitchens: "I am glad that all previous demands for withdrawal or disengagement from Iraq were unheeded, because otherwise we would not be able to celebrate the arrest and trial of Saddam Hussein; the removal from the planet of his two sadistic kids and putative successors; the certified disarmament of a former WMD- and gangster-sponsoring rogue state; the recuperation of the marshes and their ecology and society; the introduction of a convertible currency; the autonomy of Iraqi Kurdistan (currently advertising for investors and tourists on American television); the killing of al-Qaida's most dangerous and wicked leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and many of his associates; the opening of dozens of newspapers and radio and TV stations; the holding of elections for an assembly and to approve a constitution; and the introduction of the idea of federal democracy as the only solution for Iraq short of outright partition and/or civil war.
mft - i am glad you mention the positive outcomes of the war as they amount to practically nothing on the scale of the loss of human life and capital:
Saddam was arrested, and that is good.
Hi 2 kids were offed, and that is god too.
The WMD statement is overhyped as we know. Iraq was already declawed.
Marshes and an eco system were saved - that's fine too.
A convertible currency ? Now that's fantastic !
Autonomy of kurdistan is interesting but it's a double edged sword as it may be the source of further conflict with Turkey.
Zarky offed was good.
Newspapers would be fine but it's disingeneous as they better be pro-american (remember what happened to Moqtada's paper)
the constitution is a sham
an "idea" was introduced ? impressive.
If all these positive outcomes weren't matched by negative ones of an entirely different order of magnitude, I suppose that would be something to brag about. But the short of this is you've offed three bad guys, deposed a dictator and come with an idea (and possibly fixed that blinking red light at the corner of Moqtada avenue and al-Sistani blvd)... al this for nearly 3,000 american dead, tens or hundreds of thousands of iraqis dead, tens of trillions of dollars spent and a civil war started.
This a truly appalling return on investment.
However, they don't think of turning their backs on their comrades would.
I certainly did and fortunately for me was able to do it legally. There are no blank checks, mft.
only dummies can join the Army.
I didn't say that - it's a matter of conscience.
i wrote tens of trillions - and meant billions, of course.
This a truly appalling return on investment.
If you count the way you count, yes, I grudgingly agree: dollar for dollar there are better ways to spend John Q. Taxpayer's money. But there is a fallacy there, that you forget about: you assume that the world would have stood still, were it not for the US to fight back in the WOT. And that's a big if, which I definitely don't buy. Eg, if left unchecked and unchallanged, Binnie, Saddam & sons, Zarky, and assorted AQ types would have gone even more on the offensive against the West, while Chirac, Zapatero, Prodi, Koffi, Kerry, and the like would have grovelled even more.
Put another way, if you want to make a honest balance sheet, you have to take into account what the enemy would (and could) have done to us and to the rest of the world, if no reaction was forthcoming, as would have surely been the case, were someone like Gore, Kerry, Dean, Pelosi, or whoever in charge.
Put another way, if you want to make a honest balance sheet, you have to take into account what the enemy would (and could) have done to us and to the rest of the world
You cannot establish this with any degree of certitude, ai.
That's why the Marshall Plan has turned out to be such a waste of money, Pepe.
I submit that the only bright points in this otherwise unfortunate adventure (the offing of zarky & the hussein bros) could have been achieved with special ops - which could have possibly taken care of saddam.
Not an easy task of course but the billions spent on this war could have funded an impressive operation. Nothing is impossible for americans, right ?
Pepe, you're such a self-defeatist that it'd be impossible to even convince you to start swinging the hammar to pound a 16-penny nail into that first 2x6.
That's fine if you wanna think that way, but the soldiers I talk with feel sorry for your kind. They'd rather go risk their lives and kill terrorists so you have the ability to sit in New Orleans and think what you wanna think, even when you think about savoring soldier deaths. No wonder your levees gave way to Katrina in the first place.
Oh, the irony.
I certainly did and fortunately for me was able to do it legally.
Good for you, Pepe!
They'd rather go risk their lives and kill terrorists so you have the ability to sit in New Orleans and think what you wanna think
Sure - but that isn't what they are doing in the end. The sad thing is there is no connection between my sitting comfortably in new orleans and their presence in iraq. This is all a meaningless waste.
even when you think about savoring soldier deaths
huh? is that what i am doing?
No wonder your levees gave way to Katrina in the first place.
non-sequitur alert ? But if you want to take it there, you should keep in mind that the levees collapsed due to incompetence & the corrpution of the army corps of engineers...
Sure - but that isn't what they are doing in the end. The sad thing is there is no connection between my sitting comfortably in new orleans and their presence in iraq. This is all a meaningless waste.
C'mon Pepe, you know that's impossible to prove or disprove. Republicans often asserted that Bill Clinton didn't do enough to stop the threat. I don't even bother with the blame game. It's silly and a waste of time.
I don't think any of those soldiers died in vein while you think the soldiers — dead or alive — and their efforts are all a meaningless waste.
What kind of neat stuff are you thinking about today?
mft - i don't believe there is any connection between the war in iraq & terror, and the notion that "we're fighting the war there so we don't do it at home" is plain ridiculous: might as well say that we are fighting poverty in senegal so that it doesn't happen in topeka, ks.
I don't think any of those soldiers died in vein
In the end, this will be easy to establish. We'll either have a blooming democracy in iraq in which case you will have proved right or a civil war followed by a fractured state in which case you will have been wrong.
At this point, we're just betting on the outcome and I'm stating that it doesn't look very good: the people in charge are largely failing at what they're doing, don't seem to have a plan, and are loosing the suppport of their constituents.
Naw, Pepe. You're an idiot to think that history is so simplistic -- considering that you're a Frenchman, your simple interpretation is especially strange.
You're right and you're wrong. I understand why you think the way you do, but in the years and historiography to come, we'll witness varying interpretations of the response to 9-11, and the lack of response to the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, and the response to the first World Trade Tower bombing in 1993.
The American response to all of this will vary depending on how crazy the jihadists are at any point in time in history. When they slam planes into American skyscrapers, there'll be a tendency to see Islam for what it really is. When jihadists blow themselves up in European trainstations, naturally the majority of Europe will ascribe blame, but this will vary depending on who is the American president at the time.
Furthermore, those who opposed Jihadists will need to be divided up into groups. Some Americans who naturally live day-to-day, are Christians, will see the response in the short-term: some jihadists attacked America, we attack them. Another group of Americans (those on this board) see the jihadists in a longer historical sense. It's difficult to get the masses to think historically, all the time -- can't really blame them though.
Your group is a real clusterfuck, but overall self-defeatist (as I mentioned before), who are more concerned with gaining political power instead of realizing what type of threats are out there in the world.
Western Civilization will also have to start providing a definition as to what is meant by the term, "Democracy." (eg, democracy just doesn't mean majority rules; the minorities must be protected and allowed to speak, and allowed a voice, regardless of their religious or political flavor).
There's much more to it, but I've other things to tend to this evening.
Don't pass off a bunch of simplistic bullshit to me if you want to be taken seriously Pepe. Humanity is much more polyvariant than your ideology allows you to see.
There was nothing simplistic in my statement - these are the two end points of the spectrum, not the only possible outcomes.
What we know looking back at the last few years though is that the true idiots are those that, like you, mindessly parrot the administration's amalgamation of 9/11 with the iraqi adventure. As you know, even the early proponents of this fantasy have distanced themselves from it, but it remains the only legitimate moral argument for this war.
Western Civilization will also have to start providing a definition as to what is meant by the term, "Democracy." (eg, democracy just doesn't mean majority rules; the minorities must be protected and allowed to speak, and allowed a voice, regardless of their religious or political flavor).
You are no doubt seeing the writing on the wall...
the true idiots are those that, like you, mindessly parrot the administration's amalgamation of 9/11 with the iraqi adventure.
Pepe, I could say the same thing about you, that you parrot the Dem party line. And then we could get into a wonderful shouting match about who is ruining the country, and on and on and on. You could call me, as you have, a "true idiot," and I could respond, and then you could run to Hen JJ and tattle.
Forgive me, but I have to continually remind myself that the French bruise a lot easier than us Yanks.
Remember, MFT, when Pepe uses phrases such as "True Idiot" it is not ad hominem. Whereas if you use it, it is ad hominem. That's the Versaille LIne, and it's one a Frenchman will stick harder to than any Maginot. Also, "True Idiot" is said with the utmost respect and civility [with perhaps an exception for JJ]. There is Nothing Personal about it, and if you so misinterpret his words as to think there is then you are a True Idiot.
These are things one learns in studying the Pewran, and the Pewran is Perfect.
aa - it was entirely ad hominem. But weren't you off to cooking sardines ?
I don't know, Pepe. When you celebrate the deaths of American soldiers, you're calling for the deaths of my immediate family and close friends. So you've earned the first place ribbon for initiating the insults from the get-go.
When you celebrate the deaths of American soldiers
relax mft, i don't.
Besides, among all of us, I'm the only one advocating putting them out of harm's way immediately.
mft requote: Pepe, I could say the same thing about you, that you parrot the Dem party line. And then we could get into a wonderful shouting match about who is ruining the country...
mft - i was against the war long before the dems awoke.
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