freecounterpoint: Autoextraction

Sunday, May 07, 2006

Autoextraction

Dientes de ingles, or, the joys of socialized medicine.

16 comments:

Arelcao Akleos said...: I would laugh, except I would be laughing at myself. The lad is true to England, and I am true to West Virginie.; 5/07/2006 12:39 PM
The Darkroom said...: I am not sure about you but I'd rather be
sick in the UK than in the US; 5/07/2006 3:57 PM
Mr roT said...: There's a couple ways of looking at this list, Pepe. Many indicate that it is bullshit. For example, I have lived in many European countries and know for a fact that they are no better than the US when it comes to the quality of care. You know well where I have been and those are all tops by these guys' estimation.

It is nonsense. Just because in France you can call a doctor and he'll make a housecall doesn't mean the care is worth a damn. He wants $20 and then tels you to go to the pharmacy and get the same list of stuff the most uncareful US doctor would prescribe.

I still remember a semiliterate swineherd of a doctor in Orleans that didn't know enough English (or Italian, or Spanish) to understand what I tried to tell her in all 3 (plus fractured French) was wrong with my kid. I wonder how well she knows her Arabic. She was in the ER.

Another related point is whether the US or Europe (as it turns out) as part of a larger medical system produces more medicine.

It is clear that the US pharmaceutical companies are doing all the big research and all the academic work of any value is being done here. The rest of the world are non-players.; 5/07/2006 4:08 PM
Mr roT said...: Looking over your list, it has struck me that you must be on crack to take it at face-value. They put Colombia 10 spots ahead of Australia! How do you do that? Weighting for GNP, or including cocaine as a prescription drug?; 5/07/2006 4:13 PM
The Darkroom said...: JJ you are confusing the quality of the medical providers with that of the healthcare system. The fact that 20% of the US workforce doesn't have access/can't afford healthcare puts the US in a subpar category IMO: what does it matter if the best doctors are here if you don't have access to them.

Switzerland (Roche) is actually a major player in the pharmaceutical industry but that has nothing to do with the topic.; 5/07/2006 4:23 PM
Mr roT said...: Pepe, if you're in France as a guest of a University, you would expect that you would have access to good medical care, as you certainly would in the US. It was not the case. We probably had the same care available to us as did the rest of the country, but that was shit.

Same with Colombia/Australia. Where would you rather be sick? You either are assuming you live in a hovel or you are crazy.

You are right about Roche being a big company. I bet most of their research is being done a couple blocks from me.; 5/07/2006 4:35 PM
Mr roT said...: To answer your objection more directly, Pepe, say 98% of Colombians have 'access to health care' compared to, say, 78% of Australians. Do you think it is reasonable to "rather be sick in Colombia than in Australia" as in your first comment here?

I doubt it very much. It seems certain that 100% of Australians have access to better healthcare than all but the caudillos in Colombia.; 5/07/2006 4:44 PM
Tecumseh said...: The fact that 20% of the US workforce doesn't have access/can't afford healthcare puts the US in a subpar category

I just don't believe this assertion. It smacks of commie/socialist propaganda -- the sort of fake statistics Hillary & Co keep trying to use to ram down our throats socialized medicine.
It mistakes the fact that something like n% of employees don't have health insurance through their employer with the fiction that they don't have "access" to medical care. Horsemanure! Eg, I'm sure none of the effing contractors I deal with has emploer-paid health insurance, but, after ripping me off of gazillion $$, and not paying a dime in taxes, I'm sure they can afford a few Ks and buy the damn insurance. And, if some poor soul has indeed no means to buy insurance, he can always just go to the hospital and get treated -- I (and other suckers like me) will pay for that, through higher premium.

So, puhleease, spare us the sob stories about people dying on the streets for lack of medical care due to heartless U.S. Kapitalists -- I would have had sympathy for such stories if we've been living in the 1860s, but not now.; 5/07/2006 5:51 PM
Tecumseh said...: It is clear that the US pharmaceutical companies are doing all the big research and all the academic work of any value is being done here. The rest of the world are non-players.

Switzerland (Roche) is actually a major player in the pharmaceutical industry but that has nothing to do with the topic.

For once, I'm with Pepe. Roche is doing heavy lifting in pharmaceutical research. So does Bayer. And there are lots of medical research institutes in the EU -- let's not get carried away...; 5/07/2006 5:55 PM
Mr roT said...: Not even in the 1860s. Back then the unhappy adage "shit happens" was coined.; 5/07/2006 5:56 PM
Mr roT said...: Put your stats where your mouth is.; 5/07/2006 6:04 PM
Tecumseh said...: Here are some data on pharmaceutics. And a list of companies. You dig out the rest...; 5/07/2006 6:42 PM
Mr roT said...: Don't really do the job, AI. For example, Novartis and Serono are called Swiss companies but they have huge research operations here. I do not know what fraction of their R & D is being done in Massachusetts, but I bet it's sizeable. Of course Pfizer could be doing a lot in Geneva.

I will stick to my guess that the red meat is done here and the quiche is done over there until proven otherwise.; 5/07/2006 7:03 PM
Tecumseh said...: By the way, JJ, do you know who discovered insulin?; 5/07/2006 7:34 PM
Mr roT said...: God?; 5/08/2006 12:23 AM
Mr roT said...: Probably hung out with Coanda.; 5/08/2006 11:21 AM