Monday, April 26, 2010

Texas goes Tecsian

Jaime makes a modest proposal. Rott's head explodes. The pills, the pills!
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12 comments:

Mr roT said...

Could you explain all this Constitution-worship? What's this guy about?

Foisting some penumbra onto the Great Writ that allows cops to come and ask people that are minding their own goddam business for their papers?

4/26/2010 6:11 AM
Tecumseh said...

Could you explain where in the AZ law all these Kristallnacht fantasies of yours are spelled out? Like in, Article n, Section m? If you do, then we can discuss it. If you don't, you are simply spouting the Party Line, a la Pepe.

4/26/2010 6:39 AM
Mr roT said...

The law's salient points are discussed in Allah's post, linked to here.

Allah is no ACLU nutcase and he suggests that the law is pretty vague about what cops can do and can't.

In most civilized countries, except Switzerland, if you're minding your own business, a cop can't ask you for shit.

4/26/2010 6:57 AM
Tecumseh said...

False. I was in Paris once, walking around Pigalle and minding my own business, when two flics approached me, toting Uzis, and asked me for my papiers, which I proceeded to produce.

Furthermore, as I said in a previous post, most civilized countries have a way of patrolling their borders without letting in millions of people crossing them illegally. Why is the US incapable of performing that elementary chore?

4/26/2010 7:06 AM
Tecumseh said...

Actual text of the law: FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON, EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION.

Pardon my "Constitution worship", but what exact paragraph of said Constitution does this State law violate? I need exact wording (like in, Article n, section m), not some bullshitty penumbra emanating from the perfervid imagination of an LA Cardinal.

4/26/2010 7:11 AM
Mr roT said...

Good question, but that's not the topic of discussion.

About France, man, you should have seen the cop presence in the Marseille train station. Uzis aplenty, everywhere. The only goddam thing in the shit country not on strike was the army they deployed in the gare.

Seems like France has some problem with the sans papiers too. You sure you weren't walking out of a mosque drunk or something? You must've given them probable cause.

4/26/2010 7:13 AM
Tecumseh said...

Like, perhaps, someone is slinking across the border? Duhhh...

And, by the way, it's not a question is someone is an "alien". The problem comes when someone is an illegal alien, like in, someone who broke the law in order to come into a country illegally. How do you check on that? Well, I dunno -- but it's an issue that has been dealt with by nation states since time immemorial. If a country doesn't reserve the right to control who crosses its borders, and who's in the country legally and who's not legally in there, what's the definition on a nation-state, then, according to Rotten logik?

4/26/2010 2:22 PM
Mr roT said...

Tecs, no one's disputing that people sneaking across the border in the middle of the night are likely to be sneaking across the border.

Though you seem to be hiding your vision of the obvious, you must know better than that and Allah talks about cops hanging around on the sidewalk (apparently not at the border) and juicing up probable causes.

That's not acceptable. Maybe it is in France or in the good old DDR, but not in the States, and if Az goes that way, it will be a sad thing.

I can't answer your tangentially related hypotheticals. The border can be a fence as high as anyone wants and illegals can be caught and deported nice and legal, but the US should not become a police state and yes, it's enough for there to be cops out asking people with no probably cause to show ID.

The "problem" is that illegals are hired in the States by citizens and the citizens get off without penalty. Politically, it is tough to punish citizens for paying honest money for an honest job done.
Also, it is difficult to make a regular guy check the citizenship of someone he hiring to mow his lawn.

So, the enforcement all rains down on the poor schmuck that comes over to make a couple bucks, and now that the problem has gotten publicized enough to be politicized (there always have been a lot of Mexicans in these places) the idilts like your JD go in and suggest we turn Phoenix into Stalag 17.

This is bullshit.

4/26/2010 2:33 PM
Mr roT said...

For your generous boldface emphasis, I will supply Allah's last 'graf:

Newly minted immigration hardliner John McCain is already playing that angle to the hilt, which means it’s open season for the rest of the Republican caucus to follow suit. I just hope The Artist Formerly Known as Maverick is prepared for damage control if/when Arizona cops start arresting American citizens. Won’t be pretty.

You see? American citizens. Not aliens or sneaking across the border.

4/26/2010 2:40 PM
Tecumseh said...

This is a haphazard mixture of red herrings and strawmen. After all the sturm und drang and over the top comparisons to the DDR (in case you don't know, the Volkspolizei would shoot people climbing over Die Mauer to get out, not get in the worker's paradise), I still don't see an ounce of recognition that there is a real problem when you have millions of people breaking the law with impunity. It really doesn't bother you one iota?

4/26/2010 4:48 PM
Mr roT said...

Of course, Tecs.

Why in the world would I suggest putting up a fence and deporting illegals, nice and legal, and bemoan the fact that one can't go after the employers?

The thing is that going and setting up checkpoints in the mall is overdoing it and though no more literally Honecker's Worker's Paradise than most of our joyful hyperbole here, it is unacceptable to a normal American to see that.

I wonder why this is a shock to you. Weren't you just a smidge out of your element when the French Uzi guys stopped you and asked you for your papers?

Does that happen in Brattle Square?

4/26/2010 5:06 PM
Mr roT said...

Even Tancredo worries that the law doesn't pass muster.

What will it take to make you see the light? Does Genghis Khan have to oppose it?

4/26/2010 5:10 PM

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