Wednesday, March 10, 2010
Rotten paradise
Pulling hard for pinko nirvana: McC is pretty overwrought, but he's at his worst when he's warning and warning and warning about how if the Dems pass anything on health, then it will be irreversible and a catastrophe. Yawn.
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That escaped me -- I simply call it pinko paradise. Good enough of a description? Read the quotes from Jimmah & al, and you'll see this is a fair description.
More joys of Cuban socialism.
I went back and re-read the article -- your interpretation is tendentious. The guys clearly referes to teh early days of teh Castro regime, not present-day Cuba: ...a regime that has jailed and tortured political prisoners at a higher rate than Stalin and murdered (in absolute numbers) more political prisoners in its first three years in power (out of a population of 6.4 million) than Hitler murdered in its first six years (out of a population of 70 million.)
As all commie regimes, things start on the Stalinist model, and then slowly get somewhat better once their are firmly in power (duhh,..). Here is a more contemporary account of Catro's paradise in its early days.
And here is another article by that noted kulak wrecker, Humberto Fontova, writing in an "extremist rag" (meaning, anything not MSM?)
Wiki provides some scholarly research of Castro's repression: Latin American historian Thomas E. Skidmore says there had been 550 executions in the first six months of 1959. British historian Hugh Thomas, in his study Cuba or the pursuit of freedom stated that "perhaps" 5,000 executions had taken place by 1970, whilst The World Handbook of Political and Social Indicators ascertained that there had been 2,113 political executions between the years of 1958-67. The author of the Historical Atlas, an online personal compilation of various sources, concludes: The dividing line between those who have an axe to grind and those who don't falls in the 5,000-12,000 range. The Cuban American National Foundation states that since the revolution 12,000 political executions have taken place. Dr. Armando Lago, of the Association for the Study of the Cuban Economy, a group of academics whose board of directors is almost entirely Cuban exiles, states that between 15,000 and 18,000 Cubans were executed for counterrevolutionary activities since the revolution. He also says that 250 Cubans disappeared during the period, 500 died in prison for lack of medical attention, 500 were killed in prison by guards and there were 150 extrajudicial assassinations of women.
Not nearly on the Holodomor or the Holocaust scale (as Fontova alleges) -- but almost no one since WWII can compete with that, except Pol Pot after he took power in Cambodia. On the other hand, much worse than, say, East Germany under the Stasi (in terms of numbers killed, tortured, degraded in awful ways, etc), and the DDR has been routinely referred as a Stalinist regime, for good reason.
Maybe we're working with two different definitions of "Stalinism"? What exactly do you understand by that term? Just genocide on the Holodomor scale, or a huge Gulag apparatus? I think there are more connotations to that term, some of which are valid.
What we're supposed to learn from this is that these righty papers are sometimes just as frothing-at-the-mouth as Kos.
Perhaps I am prejudicial, but when they go say something like that, I can't take them seriously anymore, about like when some left-tard talks about blood on W's hands or lying us into war ...
They're just douchebags on both sides, though some are useful idiots from our perspective.
It is unfortunate that our side utilize useful idiots. I thought we were about talking straight and people being free to decide.
Another difference. Holodomor and Holocaust weren't about "counter-revolutionary activities." You got to join the dead club a lot easier than actually doing something or even being related to someone that did something.
I bet the Cubans that got axed were really doing something and Cuba probably has its Article 3, Section 3 also.
I doubt there's a serious attempt at jurisprudence in Cuba on cases such as this, but that's as easily explained my the official language and cultural makeup as by the whiff of socialism in the air.
Stalin? Did Cuba have forced collectivization? Was it expansionist?
A lot makes no sense at all. You have to be a player first!
Did Cuba have forced collectivization?
Answer: Yes: Agricultural production cooperatives were experimented with in the first few years following the Cuban Revolution. Between 1977 and 1983, farmers began to collectivize into CPAs — Cooperativa de Producción Agropecuaria. Standard Soviet-style modus operandi.
Was it expansionist?
Answer: Difficult for an island-nation (can't grab pieces of Ukraine or Georgia or whatnot, like the Rooskies have a habit of doing), but yes, Communist Cuba has a history of intervening militarily in other countries, mainly for ideological reasons.
Why not study a bit history before perorating about the subject?
"Stalin? Did Cuba have forced collectivization? Was it expansionist?
A lot makes no sense at all. You have to be a player first!"
Something Fishy is growing in the State of Rotten. What the heck has happened to Herr's substitution of Hiss-story for History? [still looking forward to the Rotter's Precious tome on how the Mongols went back in time to shape Persia's role in the expansion of Dar-al-Islam to the West]
Was there forced collectivization in Cuba? Damn right there was.
Was Cuba expansionist? As much as it possibly could be, as much as the Castro brothers could conjure up short of getting whacked by the then Anti-Communist Warmongerkapitalistoppressor USA. As much as it possibly could in accordance with the "best interests" of the Soviet Union.
If Rotter bridles at the term "Stalinist", because Castro's murders are not in proportion to those of Josef, then perhaps he prefers the term "Leninist"?
But however he phrases it, the level of intrusive control the Communist Party leadership has sought to maintain over Cuba has always come close to totalitarianism and not mere "Latin style" strongman rule. It is the Marxist Socialism, dude. The "Latin" applies as much to Honduras or Colombia as it does to Cuba or Peru. So? Some aspire(d) to democracy, others to varieties of national socialism, others embraced the Internationale edition. But, hey, they're really all just Latin. Yer know, La Raza and all that. 'splains everything.
Got it. Both you Thucydidean minds have determined that if it weren't for Fidel Castro, Cuba would be Switzerland.
Where would they get the alpenhorns?
If it weren't for Castro, Cuba would be no worse off than 1959 Cuba. Which was far fucking better than present day Cuba.
But that would be no cause not to love Fabuloso Fidel. Got it.
Got it. Both you Thucydidean minds have determined that if it weren't for Fidel Castro, Cuba would be Switzerland.
Great example of Rotten Logik. Here's a roughly equivalent statement:
Got it. Both you Thucydidean minds have determined that if it weren't for Lenin and Stalin, Russia would be Switzerland.
Right, that's exactly what we said.
This is so twisted, I don't know what to say. Tecs, do you think that Russia could be civilized if the commies weren't around?
Then why do the Russians I know in Boston say that Russians need a strong hand?
You ever heard of sarcasm, Herr Rot? I was trying to use that ancient rhetorical device to expose (via reduction ad absurdum) the fallacy of your logic. I guess my argument flew by you. Ah, well...
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