freecounterpoint: yet another preelection gift

Thursday, October 12, 2006

yet another preelection gift

19 comments:

The Darkroom said...: This is actually better than a pre-election boost: this could mean the end of the war.

if anything, it is certainly stirring things up; 10/12/2006 9:57 PM
Tecumseh said...: Oh, boy. Aren't the generals supposed to keep their mouth shut, and carry out the orders of the democratically elected government? This is supposed to be a democracy, not a banana republic, yes?

Of course, the Left is never consistent -- except to their own Polar Star, which is the Red one. So in this case, they will cheer on a rebellious general, just because it suits their purposes, ie, retreat in the face of attack, and surrender to the head-choppers. Beautiful.; 10/12/2006 11:49 PM
Mr roT said...: Here is the real military ideal, even for a democracy.

[...]'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

[...]

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse & hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!; 10/12/2006 11:57 PM
The Darkroom said...: so in a democracy people in charge keep quiet unless they kowtow to the leaders whereas in a banana republic they are free to speak their minds? Some vision you have for democracy here, ai.; 10/13/2006 12:52 AM
My Frontier Thesis said...: JJ found The Reason Why, although I wouldn't use one sample of military insanity to characterize all armies of Western Civilization throughout all of history.; 10/13/2006 9:03 AM
Mr roT said...: This is Tennyson, mft.
Back in my high school days when men were men and sheep were anxious, we were required to learn this and other stuff similar by heart.
Surely this to militarize and program us just like Kim Jong Il does, but barbequeing every Sunday after Church (whatever, Pepe).

In a democracy, Pepe, the military are below the civilians in government and so do not opine about policy. You may have wondered in the past why it is that we hear so little from US soldiers about their opinion of the war, generally.

They may blow whistles (which I think is insubordination, at least) but they abstain from making judgments while serving.

This has turned out better than having generals and colonels (or even Austrian corporals) trying to woo the public favor one camp against the other or against civilians.

I would guess that even an admirer of a certain fatigue-wearing caudillo (oops, I mean lider maximo) would see the inherent problems therein, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to remind you of your classical education and bring up the names of Antony, Caesar, Augustus, Cassius, ...

Not to rub salt into the wound, mon ami, but it seems that again you are pitting civil rights against the basic tenets of survival.; 10/13/2006 9:18 AM
My Frontier Thesis said...: You hit it right on the head, JJ: Roman generals raising their private armies and warring with other Roman generals -- for Pepe and other little bitches, that kind of internal self-destruction is desired for all of the West.; 10/13/2006 12:34 PM
The Darkroom said...: They may blow whistles (which I think is insubordination, at least) but they abstain from making judgments while serving.

I would agree with this statement if you had ever objected in the same way when generals are trumpetting success.

for Pepe and other little bitches
you are getting rather offensive in your young age, mft...; 10/13/2006 1:58 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: You read Bukowski, elevate him to demigod status, and then say mft is getting offensive.

Ha, that's rich.; 10/13/2006 4:53 PM
Mr roT said...: I would agree with this statement if you had ever objected in the same way when generals are trumpetting success.

Point taken, but I have painfully taken your mocking "just 'round the corner" stuff on the chin silently rather than ballyhoo every new toilet installed in a ladies' public latrine in Baghdad.

Now you're crowing because some guy in post for two months is talking gibberish?

If you look at this pom general's words you will see that they are an incoherent mishmash of worsening the situation and staying till we get the job done.

Now which is it, Lord Sir Nigel?

As to bitches, mft, you ought to see Pepe in heels and leather chaps with his riding crop. You might learn politeness the hard way.; 10/13/2006 5:26 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: As to bitches, mft, you ought to see Pepe in heels and leather chaps with his riding crop. You might learn politeness the hard way.

Ha, coffee right out the nose.

One other question: is learning politeness from a Frenchman a bit of an oxymoron?; 10/13/2006 6:24 PM
The Darkroom said...: One other question: is learning politeness from a Frenchman a bit of an oxymoron?
You tell me: have i ever been rude to you or anyoneon this board? But thanks for killing this argument.; 10/13/2006 9:30 PM
The Darkroom said...: If you look at this pom general's words you will see that they are an incoherent mishmash of worsening the situation and staying till we get the job done.
It seems even tony disagrees with you here.; 10/13/2006 9:31 PM
Tecumseh said...: Got distracted by other things, and now that I was ready to rebut Pepe, I see that JJ jumped the gun, and stole much of my fire. OK, OK, what can I do, there goes the softball I was ready to hit over the Green Monster. Yet, JJ with all his Roman reminiscences left me an opening, in which I will hasten to rush. For, I think this is much more to the point in the present context than Cassius or Augustus (pace MFT).

Namely, boys and girls, remember what happened when general MacArthur started disagreeing publicly with Harry Truman over whether to nuke or not NK or China? He was promptly relieved of his command, and rightly so. I am a big admirer of Douglas "We shall return" MacArthur, and, who knows, maybe he even had a point, now that we see what happened with Kim & Lil Kim. But he crossed the line in trying to formulate national policy (perhaps even start a global nuclear war by himself) over the head of elected officials, and so yes, Truman was perfectly justified (in fact, constitutionally bound) to fire MacArthur.

Now, that armchair British general (how did he win his spurs? "fighting" in Kosovo??) is nowhere near in the same class as MacArthur, and whatever he mumbles about Iraq is nowhere as momentous as what MacArthur was trying to do back in 1951. But still, one should have some more-or-less immutable principles, especially when it comes to such matters. And the principle here should be crystal clear.; 10/13/2006 10:33 PM
Tecumseh said...: PS: Funny that "Buck" Turgidson would have to say that!; 10/13/2006 10:36 PM
Mr roT said...: Pepe, you read Peggy Noonan? I thought only AI was far enough right to tolerate her! Thank you for adding diversity of opinion here in more ways than I would have imagined. Could you follow Coulter too so you can tell me when she makes sense without my having to wade through all the diatribe?

As to being rude on this board, let's not get too sanctimonious. You were raised by nice people in a nice place with nice Camembert to eat. That place was not America and you have come here out of choice.

Though electing to come here with your family you can un-elect and return to the cepes and Camembert and you'll have lost nothing.

We born Americans and more believing immigrants take things a bit more seriously and frankly find it every bit as offensive to hear ourselves called yokels or hear that you think our countrymen are as evil as Taliban or whatever as you might be to be put among 'bitches'.

I am sorry for the discussions here that have descended to name-calling, but we are all adult men here and I think most of it is all in fun anyhow.; 10/14/2006 12:11 AM
My Frontier Thesis said...: It is all in fun (seriously), and if we're to talk about being rude, then perhaps Pepe could forward his comments to my cousin, who was friends with Dru Sjodin.

I was raised with a brother who lifts rather big weights, and calling someone a "little bitch" is rather common discourse, in or out of the gym. Typically I filter it for academics, refusing to use it in dialog in the professional world. In using it, and judging from Pepe's dialog (has anyone seen his profile pic lately), I regarded Pepe as someone with thicker skin -- which I think he has, except this is a way to jab at mft.

I'd still buy you a beer, Pepe. And I think French cuisine dominates.; 10/14/2006 11:13 AM
Tecumseh said...: JJ: Looking at the time stamp, I think Pepe first took a look at the Peggy Noonan article I linked to, then referred to it again here. Do you find her "right wing"? Why? She sounds quite deliberate and thoughtful -- in a rather fargile, potted-plant, quaint way. Her speechwriting for Ronnie used to be absolutely top-notch. She still writes very well, much more elegantly than, say Ann Coulter, but with less oopmh. And makes her point just as forcefully, but in a polite, non-confrontational way. Maybe we should all take a bit of a cue from her?; 10/14/2006 2:56 PM
Mr roT said...: I didn't call her right-wing. I implied only far-righters can tolerate her. I think she talks and writes in bland platitudes.; 10/15/2006 1:16 AM

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