freecounterpoint: L'abattoir

Saturday, October 14, 2006

L'abattoir

The scene was like a human abattoir. We fought off the Taliban but were too late to save the French guys. All of us were shaking when we were flown back to base. One of the Afghan survivors said the French had been tied up, then gutted alive by the Taliban.

This is not Versailles...

30 comments:

Arelcao Akleos said...: Ah, so "the French guys" were slaughtered after they were tied up? Does that mean they had actually first surrendered??? There is no point, no point at all, in surrendering to Jihadists. You just become the "Jew" in their own private Quroz......I would prefer to think they had been caught only after no longer physically able to fight back than to think that special forces soldiers could be so stupid as to expect a semblance of the Geneva convention from those we fight....But I suppose we will never know.
One must wonder if Pepe smirks at the death of these soldiers the way he does when Marines get gutted or decapitated. Or if he would consider his country's soldiers decision to "get personal" with the enemy to be the same sort of evil he sees when yanks decide to bring the fight to the enemy rather than lie back for death in honor of the sacred code of PC martyrdom.; 10/14/2006 9:38 PM
The Darkroom said...: Another e-mail obtained by the newspaper paints a horrific picture of British soldiers soiling themselves with fear
Who are these journalists ? Don't they know this is a british favorite pass-time ?

One must wonder if Pepe smirks at the death of these soldiers the way he does when Marines get gutted or decapitated.
care to provide a quote or is this yet another of your fantasies ?; 10/14/2006 10:01 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: fantasies? Do you think, Pepe, that just because you cried to mother JJ that I don't have the ammunition to let your petard turn upon its master?; 10/14/2006 10:04 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: And don't try to go back and delete previous comments. This last week, after finally offing 200 onerous homework papers on misunderstood techniques of ODE's, I took the liberty of copying reams of stuff from earlier months into a word-doc. It is a very target rich environment, dude. Go ahead, make my day.; 10/14/2006 10:07 PM
The Darkroom said...: show your hand.; 10/14/2006 10:19 PM
The Darkroom said...: And don't try to go back and delete previous comments.
My poor aa...; 10/14/2006 10:32 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: Good, very good. Minha pobre Pepita. Have more grading to do, a new massive set of nasty homeworks, so not until Wednesday eve comes our own Harrowing of FCP Hell. Then time for your Words, and other Things.; 10/14/2006 11:03 PM
Tecumseh said...: Welcome back, AA. Good to see you survived your own ODE mini-hell.

I had a belly-laugh when reading the line about "crying to mother JJ"! Hadn't thought of that, but the image of JJ as mother hen for bruised egos is arresting. According to the unspoken rules of this blog, we need a pic!

Now back to those horrendous eyewitness accounts: let's set aside our disputes for a moment, and keep a minute of silence for those poor souls. I don't care if they were French, or Brits, or US Marines, or Zouaves or Ghurkhas for that matter -- this is no way to go. This is pure evil we are confronting -- with the French for once on our side (sort of). Let's hope that their sacrifice has not been in vain, and that the spirit of Charles Martel is still flickering, just a tiny teensy bit.; 10/14/2006 11:29 PM
Arelcao Akleos said...: Their death was horrifying. That is, literally a horrible way to die. As special service soldiers it is almost axiomatic they had more than ordinary courage, and I deeply respect that courage. I wish it was not such a rare characteristic among the "elite" who are drumming France to its fate, that courage. I hope they did not die in vain. My comment on the manner of their death, that they had been tied then killed, was to underscore my surprise that there might be a policy/consideration of surrender to the enemy in this war. For the simple reason that you will be slaughtered anyway, and painfully, and that your life ends with its last "music" being the laughter and contempt of your killers. Far better to die in the rage of action. And I certainly understand, after this close taste of what "geneva" means to the Jihadist, why the soldiers would lose patience with Pepean niceties. If my comment had any barb aimed at anyone, it was aimed at Pepe, reminding him of his utter contempt for 'ricain soldiers & marines in similar circumstances, and wondering if that contempt was equally expressed now that this glimpse of the monstrous had been visited on his own countrymen.; 10/14/2006 11:41 PM
The Darkroom said...: reminding him of his utter contempt for 'ricain soldiers & marines in similar circumstances, and wondering if that contempt was equally expressed now that this glimpse of the monstrous had been visited on his own countrymen.
aa - i bear no contempt or admiration for soldiers involved in iraq. If anything, I feel sorry for the senseless loss of life on both sides, and particularly the civilians stuck between jihadists, a civil war, "precision" bombs, schmuck and awe, and trigger-happy marines.

What I do believe is that the upcoming american capitulation is something to look forward to - I truly never give much thought to us soldiers.

afghanistan is a somewhat different matter. this war was UN-sanctioned and might have seemed necessary back then. But this is also turning out to be a complete fiasco with the talebans bouncing back - given the inability of the coalition to win it, one has to wonder whether it wasn't also a complete waste of resources. We'll see. At least there is the semblance of a reason for foreign presence in afghanistan - a luxury that isn't afforded to those involved in iraq.; 10/15/2006 12:23 AM
The Darkroom said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 10/15/2006 12:24 AM
The Darkroom said...: For the simple reason that you will be slaughtered anyway, and painfully, and that your life ends with its last "music" being the laughter and contempt of your killers. Far better to die in the rage of action.
My, it's been a while since I read the three fucking musketeers. Glad they're back.; 10/15/2006 12:26 AM
Arelcao Akleos said...: Pepe, it is not you true that you hardly thought about US soldiers, although if you meant by that that you don't care if 'Ricains live or die, or how, then I'll grant you that. In the doc file I have plenty of quotes from you where you show much thought over them....as you hint at in your little description as "trigger happy". Just as I'm sure you would condemn your countrymen as being "trigger happy" in their fight for their lives.
And of course, when you say that "the coming American capitulation [on Iraq?, Or the whole war?] is something to look forward to" there speaks Pepe with a rare and simple candor. You are being consistent, to boot, as you no doubt looked forward a few years back to France's capitulation , in France.
When you described yourself as "Liberal" [and it was very hard to suppress a smirk at that one....in fact, I just now did fail to suppress one] it was, after all Capitulationist you had in mind,.....very much a Petainist. So, why exactly did you protest to Mother JJ at being named after a figure who so famously espoused the same notion of fighting a war as you do? His moustache was inadequate to your tastes?
So, tiresomely, yes you do not take the enemy seriously. Or, if you do, then you do not take life and civiliazation seriously. For if you are not willing to protect what you claim [and so far all we have is your claim] to wish to want to be protected, then you are something far from serious.
Three musketeers?? Three FUCKING musketeers? Why, just because we're fucking with you? Fulsome wit cuts deep, and I am wounded .... and now I have a choice; do I also seek to curry favor with Mother JJ and seek a fatwa on your ass, or do I respond in kind?. The second is so much more fun, and you do remember that word, "fun" , don't you?
In sum, better three musketeers than a blind mouse in search of his own hole.; 10/15/2006 12:50 AM
Mr roT said...: How is it I have become 'Mother JJ'? Have you boys been sneaking into my medical records?; 10/15/2006 1:03 AM
Arelcao Akleos said...: We switched from CIA to NYTimes informants...NOW we all know all, JJ.; 10/15/2006 1:08 AM
The Darkroom said...: cluck, cluck. are you my mother ?; 10/15/2006 1:12 AM
The Darkroom said...: And of course, when you say that "the coming American capitulation [on Iraq?, Or the whole war?] is something to look forward to" there speaks Pepe with a rare and simple candor. You are being consistent, to boot, as you no doubt looked forward a few years back to France's capitulation , in France.
iraq of course - the "wot" is nothing more than a loosely defined soundbite. Capitulation is the realistic approach: thanks to the incompetence of the neocons, the situation is far worse now than it was 6 months ago and, it is safe to assume, far better than it will be 6 months from now if you stay. In the absence of a shred of evidence that the us is or will ever be able to bring anything to the iraqis, give these people a break: it is time to go. And if you don't care about the iraqis, then do it for the sake of your own soldiers who are no doubt anxious to get out of there.; 10/15/2006 1:37 AM
The Darkroom said...: Three musketeers?? Three FUCKING musketeers? Why, just because we're fucking with you?
I just couldn't help myself: the exhortation to "stand up and fight" was very noble, very romantic, d'artagnan, aramis, atos (y portos de lisbao) and at the same time I could hear Carmina Burana in the background.; 10/15/2006 1:48 AM
Mr roT said...: What's Orff got to do with it? Orfful stuff, that.; 10/15/2006 2:11 AM
The Darkroom said...: exactly my point: musketeers dressed in pink tights & feathered hats fighting to the last one on orfful soundtrack.; 10/15/2006 12:37 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: Is it better to be "romantic" towards an ethos that happens to be Muskateer? or better to be romantic towards Bukowski?

The latter is way more sophisticated, Pepe.; 10/15/2006 2:27 PM
Tecumseh said...: Pepean thought distilled to its essence:

iraq of course - the "wot" is nothing more than a loosely defined soundbite. Capitulation is the realistic approach: thanks to the incompetence of the neocons, the situation is far worse now than it was 6 months ago and, it is safe to assume, far better than it will be 6 months from now if you stay. In the absence of a shred of evidence that the us is or will ever be able to bring anything to the iraqis, give these people a break: it is time to go. And if you don't care about the iraqis, then do it for the sake of your own soldiers who are no doubt anxious to get out of there.

There is so much wrong will all this, that I wouldn't know where to start -- it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. So OK, I'll let it slide. AA, are you adding this quote to your magnum data base? One of these days, it needs to be rebutted, but now I don't have the energy, better start packing for Italia.; 10/15/2006 3:12 PM
The Darkroom said...: it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. So OK, I'll let it slide.

if i ever heard a half-ass concession, that would be it.; 10/15/2006 3:24 PM
The Darkroom said...: I wouldn't know where to start
maybe that is telling you something right there...; 10/15/2006 4:17 PM
The Darkroom said...: Here's more evidence that the shit is continuing to hit the fan with no prospects of improvement.

I am really curious as to how you reconcile your support for your troops with the will to see this conflict continue.; 10/15/2006 4:29 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: I am really curious as to how you reconcile your support for your troops with the will to see this conflict continue.

Conservatives (and Libertarians) don't feel it's necessary to impose a draft; therefore, the soldiers signed the line after being told how "fun" it'd be by some Army Recruiter working on commission -- the point: they themselves signed the line. Therefore, Pepe, in the immediate sense, the troops are there to stick up for one-another (whoops, there's that Muskateer/Shakespearean Band-of-Bros ethos again -- darnit!) rather than be a self-absorbed, nihilistic Bukowski (although very entertaining to read) and stab their fellow man in the back.

In the long term sense, many of the soldiers believe they are making a positive difference. I've explained this to you in the past, using a neighbor and my own bro-in-law as an example. But alas: when confronted with inconvenient data, you'll tell me I'm just fabricating it all and blah-blah-blah.

Yeah, I get about as tired of your shit as you get of mine.; 10/15/2006 5:14 PM
The Darkroom said...: In the long term sense, many of the soldiers believe they are making a positive difference.

Yeah, they probably hear that during team-building/morale-boosting exercises, but besides trading a dictotorship for civil war, what have they accomplished?; 10/15/2006 5:29 PM
Tecumseh said...: Holding the line, perhaps? Remember, the Cold war was not won in a day -- it took 45 years to contain the Evil Empire, and to squeeze it till it imploded.

In all likelihood, this war is gonna be even longer. Whose nerve will crack sooner? The French have already basically surrendered -- of course. Others will keep on fighting, and sacrificing.

This reminds me of a short speech given some time ago on an open field in Pennsylvania. Surely they do not study this speech in French schools (it would sound alien to their ears), but here it resonates, at least among some:

It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.; 10/15/2006 6:07 PM
My Frontier Thesis said...: Pepe, your declaration that soldiers are so jaded is in itself merely your own worldview that you've imposed on others. You can't be a soldier and think like that. Know why? Because you'd be fucking worthless on the front line, and your comrades or buddies or GIs (in any army, under any flag) would rather you get fragged or be wounded to get you off the front line and back to a medical barracks. This is why your plan doesn't work: in feeling-sorry-for-yourself, you are compounding the problem.

The United States is not gonna sit around idle while shit happens in the world -- that's more of a Parisian nihilistic thing. Just because you're pro-isolationism doesn't mean everyone wants to sit in a corner of the world complaining about everything while doing nothing (again, I think that's more of a French, or even Euro thing these days).

How did that whole French Aid-for-Saddam Oil work out?; 10/15/2006 7:48 PM
The Darkroom said...: Pepe, your declaration that soldiers are so jaded is in itself merely your own worldview that you've imposed on others. You can't be a soldier and think like that.
I agree with you that soldiers can't think like this. But it takes nothing away from the fact that they aren't accomplishing anything.; 10/15/2006 9:11 PM